David Garfinkle isn’t just an Emmy-nominated Hollywood heavyweight who built and sold his successful studio, Renegade (creator of smash hits like Blind Date and Naked and Afraid). He’s a masterclass in integrity, entrepreneurial foresight, and finding your “superpower.”
In this candid interview, David pulls back the curtain on:
- The Defining Moment: How getting fired for refusing an unethical request propelled him into founding his first company.
- The Manifestation Mindset: Why being realistic about your goals is the secret to achieving them.
- From Cameraman to CEO: Learning every job in the business to build a strong, respected brand.
- The Art of the Pivot: Why he walked away from a $50 million investment when the market shifted, proving integrity trumps quick cash.
- Hollywood 2.0: His vision for the future of content creation, where knowledge philanthropy and the 360-degree creator business model replace old studio dynamics.
Discover the powerful lessons in courage, business growth, and intentional living that took a modest Florida boy to the top of Hollywood and into an inspiring next chapter focused on purpose, family, and giving back. This is more than a success story—it’s a blueprint for a life well-lived.
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Listen to the podcast here
David Garfinkle, An Emmy-Nominated TV Producer And Amazing Human
Welcome everybody. It is so good to have you. I am especially excited because I am going to introduce my guest, David Garfinkle. The world knows him as an incredibly successful producer. He sold his studio called Renegade. He won a primetime Emmy for Naked and Afraid, I believe.
Nominated.
That sounds bad. You have won one for something, no?
Nominated seven times. I am a seven-time loser.
You guys know, the nomination is more valuable than the win. Isn’t that what they say?
Absolutely.
Mobile home disasters, Reel Wild Cinema. The list goes on and on, but what is funny is I had to Google all that because I know David, and I am lucky enough to be recently friends with him. He is one of those guys that you are just instantly like, “Were we born together?” I feel like we are best friends. I know him as just the smartest, kindest, most empathetic guy I have ever met. I had to Google it because he doesn’t have an ego. He does not talk about this stuff. It is so good to have you, David.
Thanks, man. I am honored to be here with my boy, my guy.
David has been really pivotal with me on the book. You guys have heard me talk about The Reduction, which is coming out.
It is awesome. I was lucky enough to read it, and it is really special. You are going to love it.
Thank you, man. Coming from you, it is huge. Why do you not start by saying there is so much I want to talk about with you? You are an amazing family man. We are going to get into whatever you feel like getting into in reference to Myra, your awesome wife, and your kids. Also, how you are transitioning from massive success to what it looks like now at this young age still. Why do you not start at the beginning, talk about how this modest Florida boy came out and conquered Hollywood?
Early Manifestation: The College TV Show
I fell in love with telling stories and television at college at Florida State. I was not a particularly good student. I had a terrible education in Miami. I was really lost. I did not go to college for two years, and I did not know what I wanted to do. I finally went to Florida State. I barely got in there. I turned down Harvard three times. You did too, right?
Yes.
I fell into it with a friend, and I just went into the television and communications departments and started my own TV show there with a friend. That was my first entrepreneurship.
When you say started a TV show, you are talking about it in college. Where did that air back then? How did that work?
I sold it to the local CBS affiliate.
You were meant for this, then.
I was like, “Wow.” I actually had to go sell ads. I was doing local bars, which would do ads on the show. I recruited a bunch of students. It was very similar to what I ended up doing in my career.
It was in you.
I fell in love with it.
The creative process?
It really started in the creative process. I learned how to edit, and you had a little camera in college. We put this show together, and we recruited all these students, and we were reporters. I made a lot of friends, and we had a ball. It was just fun being creative. I fell in love with that. When college ended, I had no money, nowhere to go. I needed it. I went back to Miami, where I grew up and lived with my parents, but I got an internship at a local TV show called PM magazine. It was like one of those local magazine shows. It was the start of reality TV.
What year is that, just to stamp this for people roughly? What year was that roughly?
The Internship Hustle & Core Work Ethic
That was 1983. What happened was I got an internship there, and I always tell this story to my kids or to my employees. There were nine interns on this little show for the summer. The executive producer came out and said, “Here is what you are doing.” We had like three phones, and they had some contest that they were doing. We were stuffing the list back there so that they would promote it by sending it out by mail. More than anything, I wanted to get a job when that internship ended. I had twelve weeks to prove myself, and there were no jobs available, but I was in my mind. I was working there.
See, there for the audience, there is a defining moment right there. You did not go into it, as I have nine weeks. You went into it, as I have a plan.
Yes, for sure. I knew I had to outwork the other eight interns. Of course, I came in earlier than anybody. When the phone rang, I was the first guy to answer it. I stuffed more envelopes than anybody else. When everyone else went home at six, I would start logging tapes for the producers with whom I started making friends, and I would stay there until midnight, logging tapes to learn the whole business, to start networking, making friends with these producers.
I was like, “There is no way I am getting the job here.” I had no safety net. That was it. I was not from LA. I did not have it. Sure enough, towards the end of my internship, what was happening was I started at night, also going into the edit bay, and I befriended one of the editors. When he would leave, I would stay and start editing. He and I became friends. Unbeknownst to me, he goes on a two-week vacation and tells the executive producer, our boss, “This guy is pretty good. Why do you not have him while I am on vacation? Put him in for two weeks. It is free labor.”
He did. The guy comes back. He gives his two weeks’ notice. He was off doing job interviews and got another job. I went to the executive producer and said, “Look, I am the guy for this job. I know how to edit, I know how to tell stories, no one will work harder.” The guy left, and they were interviewing people. While they were interviewing, they let me edit. They just kept me in the room, and my work started to speak for itself, and then they hired me.
They stopped the interview process. You got it.
I got it. I was making $375 a week.
You have almost doubled that since then.
Not quite. I thought I hit the jackpot. I really did. I thought I hit the jackpot. I was the only intern who got hired. To me, it was just a no-brainer. You just put in the work.
That is the one thing, right? No matter what, there is no way to get around hard work.
You cannot. If you are willing to outwork people. I am not the smartest for sure.
You have high emotional intelligence. That is how you befriended that guy. I see it now.
I was a hustler, and I hustled my way into it, but I was willing to learn and listen and network and do all the things that we know we need to do if you want to be successful.
That is the difference. You are hustling with purpose and integrity because there are hustlers who see what they get away with, and it never works. You have hustle and integrity with a goal.
Integrity is key. It is so important.
What is that quote? “You can always make more money, but you cannot rebuild your reputation.”
That is right. I built my reputation in this small community through this TV show, where all the producers were talking me up to the executive producer when that door opened. I paved my way so that when they said, “You should hire this guy,” he said, “Yes.” He felt comfortable enough to give me the job.
They were following your script all along.
It is amazing how manifestation, when you manifest something, makes it attainable. It is something that you know. I would love to have been the quarterback for the Miami Dolphins, but this arm, my height, and my athletic ability were not going to allow that to happen.
Talk more about manifesting because I love Joe Dispenza. I truly believe in manifestation, but I do not want to say what I think of it. I love that you said it on your own. Tell me more about what that means to you and how it has played out in your story.
Manifestation, Finding Your Superpower, & Career Journey
My manifestation has always been that you have to be realistic in what you are manifesting. I knew what my strengths were. I knew all along what my weaknesses were. The things that I was going to manifest and obtain were things that I really believed I could make happen. That is key.
That is a lot because, as they say, it is like the worst thing you tell your kids is that anything is possible. Possibilities are endless. As you so well did, if you align your best skills instead of trying to, I love that you said that too, because even though it took me later in life to realize to stop trying to get better at my mediocrities. Lean into what I am good at. Get people for the rest.
We all have something that we are good at. You just have to find your superpower. Once you find that, then you take it, and you run with it. I had my dream job. I was naive back then. I am like, “This is it. I have got my family here. I have got a job. I finally moved out and got an apartment with my childhood buddy. Everything was good.” Six months in, I am going, “This cannot be it. I need a new manifestation.”
You just have to find your superpower. Once you do, take it and run with it. Share on XIn only six months, and see, that is another key point, for people tuning in. The second you feel comfortable, you are done. There is no such thing as flatlining. That is death. You are up.
I have a great story I will tell a little later about that, which is a sad and crazy story, but I will tell it as we get further along. I knew within six months that this was not going to be my forever job, but I needed to learn more. I stayed there for another year and a half. I was growing there. I went from editing to being a cameraman. I learned how to be a cameraman. I was doing some directing, and it was a great first experience.
I decided, “If you are really going to be on TV, there is only one place to be. Hollywood.” A buddy of mine and I took a vacation. We came to California, went to San Francisco, then to LA. I was like, “This place, I have got to come here.” I will never forget the story. I went home. I was driving, had Sunday night dinners at my grandparents’ house, and I was with my dad in the car, just the two of us. I said, “Dad, I am moving to LA.”
My dad said, “No, you are not. You do not have money. You do not have a job. What do you mean you are moving to LA? Your family is here. You have got a nice job. You have got a career.” I was like 24 at the time. I am moving to LA. It was not a question. In that generation, some people were different. He was a school teacher. He had a stable job. I had benefits and all that. Sure enough, I decided I am packing up, and I am going. I saved up $2,500.
That was a lot back then.
Back then, it was a lot of money.
That is a week in LA.
That is a dinner in LA now. I got on the plane, and I remember I had three boxes with clothes, and I did not even have a suitcase. I could not afford a suitcase. I had boxes. The LA Times used to have for rent. There was no computer. I called when I was in Miami and got this guy’s room for rent. I land in LA. I take a taxi because I have no car at this point, and I get out, and it is just a really bad, awful apartment building. It was in Venice, but in a bad part.
Venice was crazy back then. It was not today’s yuppie Venice.
It was like down and dirty Venice. It was rough. I walk in, and this guy has got a guitar around his neck, smoking a doobie. He goes, “Welcome to LA, dude.” I am like, “All right.” I had a room the size of this little room, dirty carpeting, and I am like, I put my boxes in, I lie down, and I go, “I had a girlfriend in Miami.” I am like, “What did I do?”
The next day, I got up and bought a 1979 Ford Fiesta orange for $700. The right door did not open. I had a pretty good reel. Back then, you had a reel of my camera work, my directing. I had done this video on my own, and I got nominated for a Florida Emmy for directing. That was something outside of the job I did on my own. I was manifesting my next thing. That reel, I got from the general manager of Miami, he had two people for me to meet when I came out here.
Again, do good, be good, and you get referrals instead of “Thank God. He is gone.” Even though you left, and they were probably crushed. That is what reputation means.
The guy who was the GM is still my friend to this day.
Dude, we will get to that next, because that is your theme song. Everybody is tuning in, every friend I meet is like for life. It is incredible. I cannot wait for you to talk about Jay, because rarely can somebody be partners and have a workout. When they are, they can rarely make it as long as you did, have a successful sale, and then still be best friends. We are going to get to that for sure. There you had your reel, and you had two people to meet.
One was at KTLA News, where he was the news director, and the other was on some syndicated show. My third day in LA, I went for both interviews, and I got offered two jobs. Both jobs I got offered. Instead of just taking one or the other, I took both.
That is priceless.
I worked from 7:00 in the morning until 3:00. From the second job, I worked from 3:30 to 12:00. Now I am making $1,000 each. I am making $2,000 a week from $375. I will never forget.
Making $2,000 a week back then was bank.
It was like crazy money back then. I will never forget that day I ran to the pay phone because I did not have one, and I called my mom and dad, and I went, because they were worried and they were always very supportive of me, but they were scared.
It is scary, California is on the other side of the country, with our young boy who has nothing.
I said, “I got two jobs, and I am making $2,000 a week. It was fun, man. It was exciting. I did not know anybody here. As you do, you start making friends and networking. I was like, “This felt like this was my home. This is where I was supposed to be.”
It is so amazing listening to you, David, because I have had the pleasure of getting some of these tidbits, but not this deep. Again, there is no such thing as luck. It is like you made it happen. People say, “I want this,” but I always say, “Do your actions match your intentions?” Wanting is lovely, but when you are willing to work two jobs and sleep three hours a night, probably. You were editing then, too.
No one was happier.
That is the point because you are doing what you love. The journey is everything.
I knew it was. I was just at the beginning of my journey, and whatever I could learn and take in, it was going to be so much fun. Again, I am like, “I am here. I have done it. I made it. I am working on these two things.” Of course, like six months later, I am like, “What is next?”
Either get a third job, or I will create a better one.
I got an offer. There was a show at the time that was a big show from one of the guys that I had met through networking. It was called Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous with Robin Leach.
When we were little kids, I used to watch that with my parents. That was the biggest deal. That voice you can still hear.
By the way, that guy was the biggest douchebag in the world.
Was he really?
He was awful.
They were millionaires. Now that is like a loser.
The next thing I know, I am traveling all over the world, going to these amazing places, and I left those.
You were doing that as a cameraman. Now, out of the editing booth or whatever they call it, you are on the road.
I had a really difficult day at work, but it ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me. That is another great lesson. We were told we had an assignment that Wolfgang Puck was at the top of Spago on Sunset.
That is where the California pizza was born.
As a matter of fact, he cooked me his salmon. He made it for us. One of the shoots, and I am like, “This is crazy.” He is like, “I just came up with this,” and he was excited about it because he created California cuisine.
That guy is a legend. Perched right up there across from Tower Records. That was the real deal.
Everyone wanted the A table at that restaurant. What happened was there was a fashion show, there was a party, and there was a fashion show. They closed down Spago that night, and they were doing a fashion show. The footage that I was shooting was never going to air. It was just a favor that Robin Leach was doing for Wolfgang so that he could get the A-Tables.
The Integrity Tipping Point (Lifestyles Of The Rich And Famous)
We shoot the fashion show, these beautiful women, and I am done, and the producer is there. He says, “We are good, you can put the camera away.” They asked me to be in a suit, and my crew was all in suits. They said, “You guys can stay and have a drink.” I have a drink, all of a sudden the producer comes up and says, “Robin wants you to take the camera back out and go to the dance floor, and shoot up women’s dresses,” because they put a little dance floor there.
You are joking.
No, so help me God. I go, “I am not going to do that. I am just not doing that.”
Good for you.
He goes, “Look, dude, just grab the camera. Just do some low-angle shots.” I go, I get the camera. This is my livelihood.
This is an amazing moment. I am going to let you finish. This is an amazing tipping point.
It really became that. I go, and I do some low-angle shots, nothing that I cannot put on TV. I do it for fifteen minutes, and put the camera away. I am sitting by the bar having a drink. The producer comes up and says, “Robin wants you to get on the dance floor on your back and shoot up women’s dresses.” I go, “I am not doing that.” The female producer came up, and she was like the senior producer on the show. She comes up, and she’s wasted in the corner.
It takes courage to say, ‘No, this isn’t right. I’m not doing this.’ Share on XShe says, “Just go and lie on your back. Just do it for a few minutes, and everything will be cool.” I go, “I’m not doing that.” I pack up, I go home, I get called into the office the next day, and they say, “If you will not go all out for this show, you cannot work here anymore.” I said to the producer, one was a woman. I go, “Shame on you. I have busted my ass for the last six months here. You know that I do great work. I have a lot of friends I have made, and you know exactly what is going on here.” I said, “You should be ashamed of yourself.” That day I left, I got fired.
David, now I know why I love you so much. You are integrity through and through. This snippet may be the most valuable thing in this whole show, because knowing who you are and sticking to those principles. This is what I am doing with the reduction. Your personal constitution. Who are you? All decisions have to go through that filter. You did it naturally because I would guess 99.9% of people would have done whatever they were told. This is Hollywood. This is your big chance. This is a big show. The pressure you must have had, that took courage, man.
If you think of it even as a, in a much larger sense of what is going on in our country now, because you do not have to get up. Many people are just going with that because they are afraid. It takes courage to just say, “No, this is not right. I am not doing this.”
“I would rather not work than work like this.”
Transition To Entrepreneurship: Founding The Camera Business
“I am not working for you. It is not going to happen.” I get fired. Now I had saved up because I had those two jobs, and I had saved up a little money. Now I had built up some relationships with these producers who really liked me. There was a new thing that had been happening called ENG, Electronic News Gathering. The cameras have gotten to a place where guys like me could either rent them or buy them. You could freelance yourself out to these shows.
That is when I started my company, and it was like I was the camera guy, and I started getting hired by these producers who were freelancing. They would work on lifestyles of the rich and famous, but they were also doing stories for 2020 or 60 Minutes and other kinds of shows. Next thing I know, I am starting to get hired as a cameraman, and I am renting the camera because I cannot afford to buy it yet. I was now building out a reputation in LA as a guy who was pretty good with the camera.
Was that called Renegade at that time?
It was not. It was called the Gold Coast. I had another partner. We ended up splitting off. Because we changed, the company grew. I started doing that, and then we were doing one shoot a week, and then two shoots a week, and then five. They would ask if we could have more crews. We ended up doing about 120 shoots a month.
How many people were on your team at that point?
I had to hire a bunch of people.
You were subbing the subs.
We got this little office in a garage, and I started building out an infrastructure.
That was your business mind really kicking in. What was that like to figure all that out? It is one thing to be creative in a room by yourself, editing. It is another thing to shoot your own camera, but now you are a businessman.
That is where the growth started to happen. I was a knucklehead kid from Miami. I did not take one business class, but you learn as you go, and you are savvy enough to go, “There is something here, and let’s now run with it.” I knew that building an infrastructure would be important so that you have a team.
See, you are smart. That is a great thing you understood because a lot of people go backwards on that and get it all wrong.
I stopped shooting with the camera. I started directing. Now I had all these people working for me who were doing the camera work.
I am guessing that probably happened naturally, as you were on set and you started having opinions.
Some of those producers were now executive producers, and they knew about my work. I said, “I am directing now.” They started hiring me. Now I have all these people working for us, these cameramen and women, and we have crews going out all over the world. I had a staff member booking plane tickets and all these. We had a real company.
This is now what 1990-ish or what is it?
This is like the late ‘80s.
You move fast.
As the industry grew, again, I started directing, and then I wanted to start creating ideas. I knew that the ENG thing and the cameras were going to be a dying business eventually. I started to transition into creating content, which was TV shows, and we were selling TV shows. That is when Jay, with whom we were college buddies, moved to LA.
He was very talented in college. He was a really talented guy, and he moved to LA, and he was doing a show with Jeff Foxworthy. They sold a sitcom, but it did not go well. I said, “I have this show, why don’t you come produce it?” He did, and he did an unbelievable job. I said, “Why do you not come in and we will work together on creating ideas and selling them?” That ended up becoming Renegade.
That was Renegade, and talk about the name because the name is just as simple as it sounds, really cool and epic, or was there some meaning behind it?
Both. I love the name, but Renegade was the horse, the mascot at Florida State. Jay went to Florida State.
That was your own little nod.
To our alma mater. That is where Renegade came from. It was great, but then there were a lot of struggles.
What was that? Was Naked and Afraid the biggest win?
The “One That Stuck”: Success With Blind Date
That was many years later. Our first big win was a show called Blind Date.
I remember that too.
Blind Date really became a very big show. It was a ten-year run. It became part of the zeitgeist. It was cool stuff. It built this really interesting fan base. I would get calls from my assistant. David Letterman’s writing team is on the phone. “They want to talk to you about last night’s episode.” Steve Martin’s on the phone. He was a huge fan of the show. He did a spoof with Elle MacPherson on Saturday Night Live, or just something he did on his own. He ended up putting it on the Internet. We did a blind date for him and Elle MacPherson, which he wrote. Here I am having dinner numerous times with Steve Martin.
You are so modest, man. These stories are epic. I have never heard any of this.
I am like, “How cool is this?” The show really became good for our company, and it really took off, which was great. Just like anything, we had good times and bad times. There were two times we were weeks, months, and days away from going bankrupt.
Talk about some of that because man, anybody can succeed, but when you hit bottom and bounce back, that is when you are a hero, in my opinion, because that is hard.
It was really hard. My wife and I just had twin girls, Ali and Remy, and they were little girls. They were not even one yet. We were going through a bad time at work. We were not selling shows. Things started to go well. I said to Myra, “I need to start looking for a job. I got to support help support this family.” She was great because she was an executive. She did really well. I thought about maybe I should be an agent. What should I do? I did not want to give it up. What ended up happening was literally, a few weeks later, we sold Blind Date. That helped a ten-year run.
Sold the rights.
We created the idea and then sold it to the market. We started to produce it. I started to make money for the company again. We started to do well. That turned into another show and another show.
That is so Hollywood, right? Once you get that door open, you are the Blind Date guy. We will listen.
We would always do this. We would just put up one finger, but it would never stick. We were doing shows, but they would not stick. Then Blind Date stuck, and it was like you just needed one. You just need that one. To get that one, you have to have a lot of misses, too.
I always talk about the circle of control. Not that you have that framework in mind at that time, but I think people who succeed, the two things I talk about in the book a lot are not storytelling. It is so easy to go on and on. Even with the Wolfgang Puck event. You could have said, “I am going to be blackballed now and start telling stories.” It does not sound like you did that. Circle of control. Do you remember any instances when you were about to fold the company, where you were able to stay in your circle and make it happen?
You’re exactly right. You have to take the lessons from the bad time and drive yourself to really turn the corner and not give up. It is easy to give up.
Instead of telling stories about why it went wrong or giving up, you were just moving forward.
Lying this guy, “Robin Leach, ruined my career,” and so on. I am like, no, this is the greatest thing that ever happened to me. It forced me on a new path that became who I am today.
Isn’t that amazing? It is cliché, but it is just true. Young people, I know my son struggles with it today, just trust the process. If you are engaged with sincerity and good intentions, and you are enjoying the process. Just let it unfold because nobody could ever say, “Here is what is going to happen. I am going to be asked to fill up somebody’s skirt.” It is like you just have to trust, like a great recipe. The ingredients come together.
I will tell you the story I wanted to tell you earlier. When I was at my first job at KTLA, in the news editing, I met this really cool guy. He was about my age at the time. He was a good-looking guy. He was like the head editor. He had really cool ideas. He had big dreams. He was going to get out of there and kill it in Hollywood. I went off and did my thing. We lost touch. Twenty years later, he contacts me. I go, “Dude, how are you?” He says, “Can I come in? I want to catch up.” He came to my office. He was still editing at KTLA. He was devastated because he never took the chance. He got into the union, and he was bored. He was unhappy, yet he was making a decent salary for his family.
Talk to your dad. Isn’t that incredible? That is why my constitution says no should haves, would haves, or could haves. I just gauge it based on whether it failed or not. I gauge it based on the fact that I know how it turned out because I did it. I cannot imagine living, not knowing.
That to me is the risk of not doing it. The risk is staying as that guy did at KTLA. He was such a good guy, and he was so creative, and he was so smart and talented. He ended up not taking the jump. Ultimately, he was disappointed.
Did you do anything with him?
No, he pitched me an idea that was just so bad. It was not an idea I could sell because he was no longer.
You know what the lesson is. Everything, as you know, from money to life, is the compound effect. In twenty years, it is like an inverse relationship. Whatever creativity and skill he had were slowly fading as his stability was increasing. Whereas you, every time, were a blast to the next level. That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is never too late to start, of course, but it is surely a different road.
By the way, I am not saying there is anything wrong with it. If he loved being an editor and he wanted to be, that was his career, and he was happy, awesome. We are not all alike.
With my work, I would say if you punch in, punch out, play video games, eat pizza, go to bed, and you are truly happy, wake up and say I love my life, keep on going, baby.
I knew he was not. He had regrets. That is something I never wanted. I know you. No regrets. No way. It was such a valuable meeting for me when I saw him. I felt terrible, but it was like, if I did not do that, that could have been me. It was a great reminder. I tell the girls that story.
You are sick to your stomach, which is a great feeling because that is when good shit is about to happen. You have got to be uncomfortable.
Be comfortable with the uncomfortable. That is awesome.
Again, I know it has its own challenges, I never judged generations because we just do not know. It is not our generation. We do not know. I will say, how cool it is now that anybody can produce anything on their own, whether it is music. Everything is available now, which I think can be overwhelming for kids, too, but it is pretty awesome. What would you have done with this?
If you want to make your own movie, you can make your own movie. You can do it on your phone.
Isn’t that crazy?
I mean, you can really, if it is your passion, you can do it. Instead of sitting around, you have to make it happen.
Talk about the decisions you made, the things you said now that are outside my circle as you progressed from Blind Date, getting really extra busy, and then towards Naked and Afraid in the sale eventually.
Eventually, as our company grew, I could no longer be on the set. I did not have time to direct anymore. I transitioned from being a creative guy, really, to a businessman. They had a big business.
You knew the nitty-gritty of the business, which is so cool.
I knew every job that we hired in our building. I had done every job, which was cool because not only that, but I could also respect the people who worked for me. I knew what they were going through. We had great relationships with our team.
That is instant cred. I remember, even though I took a very different path than you, I was a cook, and then I was a waiter, and then I was a manager. I said, “Before, at my restaurant, I got to know it all because even as an owner, I want to walk in, taste that sauce. I want to be able to look at that fish from across the room. When it starts bowing, guys, it is overcooked.” It really does.
Your team has so much respect for that.
That has changed now. I do not know if the people now are as ready to do all that.
I hope not because it is so invaluable. A lot of people just want to get to the end. The journey is the most fun.
A lot of people just want to get to the end, but the journey is the most fun. Share on XThat is the goal. My buddy, who has 50 restaurants here, says, “If I have one more manager ask me when they can be director of operations, COO?” He goes, “Just do the job first.” Let’s start with the job. You did not go in with the nine apprentices and say, “What is it going to take? You just did it.”
I really focused on growing the company, and then stuff I did not learn in school. Growing revenue and learning about your margins, EBITDA, and all the things that you need to be smart in how to grow a business.
You got your MBA in real time.
I did. There were other reality companies out there that were selling, and I was like, “This thing that I started as a little camera guy is now something that has value that big media companies want to own. I was like, “There is a new vision.”
There you go again. Talk more about that. I mean, your talent, I can clearly see, is having an instinct for when there is change. A lot of people will go full throttle into the ground, even though they are good at it. You have to adapt because times change, technology, especially now with AI and everything. You have got to be on the front end of it. You have got to be thinking about where it is going. If you do, give it a try. You may miss, but at least you are thinking that way. Eventually, you will hit good wisdom. Back then, I was ahead of the ENG camera thing. We were ahead of let’s sell content as an independent company in the reality space. We were doing that.
The CEO Role: Business Growth & Strategic Sale
Which is so interesting. I went and listened now, it was like “Duh,” but that was the forefront. There was no one doing it then. There was no reality. Now it is a different world where there is AI, and I have a lot of thoughts on that, and where the next-gen production company gets built. We were always at the forefront of them. I was obsessed with it. I am going to sell this thing. I built it. I spent a lot of years building Renegade, and it became a brand in Hollywood. It had a strong brand.
People wanted to do business with us, all the networks, and we had a great team that we had built. The next years were just all about growth, growing my revenue, being really smart about how we ran the company, really concentrating with my team on keeping strong margins, building our EBITDA and our growth so we could tell a growth story so that when we took it out to the market, they were like, “This is a company that is strong.” I stopped. I never went on a TV set. I became a CEO. You are no longer the guy who was on set running TV shows.
When it came with a buyer, and it was the moment for the big sale, were there second thoughts, doubts? How did you process that whole thing?
No, I was ready. I knew there was going to be a change. I was ready for the change. I was like, you had already manifested that change. I knew that whoever we were going to sell with, and we needed to pick the right partner, they were going to be smarter than me, because they were going to be bigger than me. I could learn from them. How great it is for me. I am going to learn more on a more corporate level, running a bigger business. I was like, “That is exciting. A new chapter, a new adventure, a new growth.”
They were begging you to stay, and you are like, “I am done.”
They did ask me to stay, and then I was done. I realized at the end of the day that I am an entrepreneur.
Again, look at your timing, my friend. Anybody tuning in to this?
That is where the luck came in.
If you ever want to go to the history books, it will say selling Renegade as far as the light of the sand when the whole world changed.
We were so fortunate.
Luck is about timing, like Bill Gates used to talk about. He happened to be at the only school in the world that had the supercomputer where his parents worked. That helps. What I love about your story is that it is this brilliant combination of establishing relationships by being a good guy with good intentions, mastering the skills, being a visionary, thinking about the numbers, and having an exit. It is incredible.
You all along, I was trying to make myself a better person, a better businessman. I was always reading books. It was everything from business books to self-help books. I was reaching out to people who were smarter than me and knew more than me, and I would befriend them, and I would pick their brains, and now they are great friends of mine. You need to do all that. You have got to take your ego out. Again, know what your superpower is. Bring in people who are really better than you in other areas so that when they look at my company, we are really strong. We had a great financial team in place, like really strong. I knew nothing about finance.
Many people sell because they have to, or because they missed the moment, but you were a bad player.
We brought in the right people. I learned from the right people.
Also, a great leader. I had the privilege of meeting one of your past employees at that dinner the other night. He said exactly what I expected because anyone tuning in, I want your definition, but for me, true leadership is when people want to follow you. That is it. They are inspired.
For me, I was lucky. I had a great mom and dad. My mom and dad were my greatest fans. They were there. I always wanted to be someone else’s fan. I wanted to boost the people who worked for me.
I wanted to be somebody else’s fan. I love that.
My employees and I would say to them, “When you are going to work here, I am going to try, I am going to make you the best you can be, and you are going to be amazing, and I know that, but when you are ready to leave, I am going to support you.” All that good energy comes back.
That is the culture and the attitude. I used to say them to my managers and employees. I said if you do not leave, I failed. If I have not put you in a position to have a better opportunity, I failed. I have never had anybody leave me. I have failed them. Made them succeed, one of the two, but it is never like the victim thing. It is like, “No, you are going to replace me as my goal.” That is what I used to say to my GMs. If you are not trying to be replaced by your manager, you are doing something wrong, because I will have a place for you if you do that.
Many people want to push them down because of their own insecurity. The truth is that what is the great saying is that the tide, all boats rise. I knew that if I could make my team great, it was going to make me look great. I never needed to take any of the credit. I did not even want to take the credit. I wanted to give them the credit.
That is the hardest thing in the world.
If you can take your ego out of it, I get more pleasure from letting them feel powerful. I already knew I was powerful. I did not need that.
I would say, like when I hear somebody repeating something I said or shared or whatever, I only smile because I am like, “My legacy is every life I touch. I do not need my name in a building. I do not need to be remembered at all.” Knowing that I may have helped somebody be better to their person, to their employees, it is like the gift of all gifts.
When my company broke up, we sold it, it was all over, and then we sold the Lionsgate, and then all kinds of shit happened. There is no more renegade right now. The people, my A team, have gone on to do great things.
There is your legacy, baby. Now we are going to transition to when we had to do the other night, we are standing there in front of the sink, cleaning a few things up, because he is such a good husband. His wife was going to wake up to a clean kitchen. The only way he would have it. I think some of the guys are confused. Like, “Why are we doing this?”
You said, “God, it is wild.” You are kind towards the beginning of this major life change. You are like, “I am used to being the guy. People need me to have lunch while doing deals. Talk about that. I think these days, it could be somebody who is 40 that is in this transition or somebody who is 70, but how are you approaching this transition? What are the challenges?
It is definitely challenging. Although, like you, I really do wake up happy every day. I am grateful, I am thankful, I have a great life. I got amazing wife and kids.
His wife, Myra, is awesome.
She is awesome. By the way, we have not had our problems. All of us have.
Again, sick to your stomach. That is when the good stuff happens. Somebody says we have never had a problem. I am like, “It is coming then.”
“You are lying.”
“You have just given up. You have tapped out, and you are cohabitating.”
I am now trying to figure out what is going to fill my day, what is going to make me happy, and what is going to really get me excited to get out of bed. Now I have got a few things that I am doing. One is a philanthropic thing that I am very excited about. We have done a little bit of it, but we are just launching it.
You coined it knowledge philanthropy.
We are going to help entrepreneurs who have businesses and need help growing and selling.
Future Focus: Knowledge Philanthropy & Creator Content
What I love is nobody is better than you because a lot of these people, I am sure you have met, are amazing, but they are like monomaniacs, crazy, and they have not done what you did. Three years out, this is when you do not need to start positioning and planning.
I told you this. We did a test run. We brought in five companies, and we mentored them for a day. None of them was in the entertainment space. There was a part of me that was going, “What am I going to offer?” Once you realize that business is business, it does not matter what kind of business it is. Those practical business techniques apply to any business.
Once you realize that business is business, it doesn’t matter what kind of business it is. These practical techniques apply to any business. Share on XWe have had some wonderful sessions with some incredible entrepreneurs, and one group came in, the two partners, one was a Stanford business guy, and the other was from Harvard. I am like, “These guys are clearly a lot smarter than me. They were like young guys in their late 30s, early 40s, whatever, and really bright. They had this AI real estate disruptor. It was a really interesting business. What I realized is that they needed a lot of help.
Dude, book smarts and listen, I mean, I always did school. I was in culinary school while I was working in restaurants. I do not have anything against book smarts, but, amazingly, it is a gift that you did not have all that because you just see clearly. It is like people who read a million cookbooks. They can talk about restaurants and ingredients and stuff, but it is like cooking with empty pans. I get in front of the pan. It is a mess. It is one thing to know it. It is another to cook it.
These guys had no idea how to tell their story. I am a storyteller. It was magical. It was like for these guys to just work with a day. That was a day. It was one day, and it was great. We bonded with them. We gave them some of our knowledge, and now they are off and running, and we do not charge any money for it. We are just giving. That is amazing.
Talk about the challenge between, I had a guy call me there a day, a past friend, he made a great chunk of money selling his restaurants, which is rare. He is like, “Listen to this new idea I got.” He is going on and on. I said, “Are you just trying to fill space? Is this something you really want to do?” The phone was dead silent. We had dinner the other night.
Again, he is way more successful than I by far and everything else, but he has not stopped to really think about that. I am like, “It sounds to me like you are a shipbuilder and you have not even decided if you want to sail.” Everything should be like three steps back. Who do I want to be? Not just how do I fill this time? How are you dealing with that?
When I was transitioning out of Renegade, I knew like a year and a half before that I was going to be leaving, but I had my contract. I let them know I am going to start doing other things and that I was not going to stay. They offered me to stay, and I said, “No.” A buddy and I came up with an idea that, at the time, I thought was really good. We were going to do a roll-up of a bunch of companies.
That is when I first met you. I may be talking about that. I am like, “This guy will do it if that is what he says he is doing.”
We interviewed about 30 companies. We found six that we really liked. We put a deck together and started raising money. We needed 100 million.
You should have called me. I should have written the check, man.
You are glad I did not call you and take your money. We worked really hard on it. In that year and a half, Hollywood, because of technology and AI and all the different things that are going wrong right now, has just changed. Our thesis was no longer a strong thesis.
Again, dude, you are just an endless list of great skills in decision-making. You could have just said, “I am in, I am going to do this, I have done it before.”
It is weird, we had a group that was ready to write us a check for 50 million. They said if it was going well, they would give us the other 50 million. I woke up, and I told my partner one day, “We cannot do this. This is not going to work. The landscape has just changed too much.” I did not feel good taking $50 million from someone that I did not feel that I was going to be able to deliver.
30 or 40 years later, we have got another up the skirt moment. I told you to do it, take the money, but you are like, “No. It is not right.”
I said, I am not going to do it. We bailed out, and it was the best decision. Look, also, my journey has been fun, ups and downs, always, business is not always fun. There are hard times. From where I am right now, every day has to be fun. I was looking at this, going, “This is not only not going to be fun. I am going to be taking people’s money. I do not believe in our thesis anymore.”
Now, how are you dealing with, like, who is David now? How does he want to spend his days? Again, the natural thing would be, let’s roll up some movie companies. Now you have pivoted to this, now it is philanthropy, but how are you, or if you are, how are you reevaluating what you really want the next decades to look like?
I am reevaluating, but I know one thing. I want to give back. I love to mentor. I have always mentored through my company. We have had a program of mentorship through the company. That is where I want to spend my focus and energy. There is a company that came to me that is an AI company, which I am helping right now.
Talk for a few minutes about it, because I think people will find you very valuable to be relevant now, but still have the experience you have. What is your vision? If you were manifesting it, what do you think this AI Hollywood thing is going to look like?
Look, if you are building the next 2.0 production company in the unscripted world, that was my area. It is no longer creating ideas as we did and then going to the market and trying to sell them to ABC, NBC, CBS, and the cable channels. That is all over. They are going to be producing a lot less content. Where the new model is creator content.
Young people who have something to say, who are interested in creating their own content and sending it out to their own fan base, and some people have a few thousand, but there are now people who have millions. The ones who are building real fan bases, you can start building a 360 business model around that fandom. Especially if the content is advertiser-friendly. You will start getting brands and advertisers that want to.
That part never changes. Everything is an advertising business at the end of the day.
You can start building products that you are going to be selling to your fan base.
Do you think everybody is their own studio? Is that the future?
Absolutely, but not everybody. Only the top group.
Will somebody like the future you that now has a production company that is essentially a group of these individuals, and they are managing their content, or what?
That is what I would do. I would go find a young person, and I would find a few of them, and I would go to them and say, “Look, you are really good at creating content. Maybe you are a science person, the science guy or gal or whatever they are sending out.” I would say to them, “You are really good at creating content. I am really good at building a business. I want to build a 360 model around you so that I am going to make this a real business, not just Joe Smith sending out content to a bunch of followers.
There you go again. That is always going to be needed. There is no one-stop shop, because we are not good at everything. I am overwhelmed right now with the branding and the book, “I do not know this stuff. I like creating content, but I am not good at the rest of it.”
Some people know how to do that. What movies are going to be in the, there will always be the big movies that, whatever Warner Brothers, Paramount, Netflix.
That would be such a sad day.
No, there is still going to be that.
That will be the new indie niche.
They are going to do the big franchise stuff, where I think the indie niche is Mark Rober, the science guy. He now has 72 million followers. Young kids who love the cool science stuff that he is doing. Now he has a toy company. He just did a big deal with Netflix, where he is doing long form. Eventually, because of AI, he will be starring in his own movie. He will produce his own movie. He will be the star of that movie, and he will be able to produce the movie so cheaply that he will send it out to his 72 million followers, and maybe the second window will be on Amazon or Netflix.
Do you think there will be a world in which that guy, then, all he needs is maybe Brad Pitt for one of his movies, but everything else is AI in it?
He does not need anybody. He has 72 million followers. 72 million followers spend a dollar on his movie. He has made 72 million dollars in a movie that he can produce for under a million dollars.
Isn’t that incredible? What he needs is someone like you. As you said, I like this 360 idea. It is almost like there will be, that is the future.
Branding. That is the new model.
Branding—that is the new model. Share on XWe have this on video, this one is not a video, it is my house under renovation, but if you saw the energy coming out of this guy right now. He is glowing, like you are nowhere near done. It is just going to be, what does it look like?
What I would rather do is help someone build it and help guide them because I want to play a little more golf. I want to travel with my wife more.
You guys are going to do a couple of months coming up. I also want to call you out for it. Scott Galloway talks about it. Many people talk about it. Guys are so bad at having friends and building friend groups. I love seeing you. You are doing that. You are benefiting all of us. David instigated a boys’ dinner and got a group of seven guys, eight guys there the other night. We had so much fun. I remember I went into it a little tired. I had had a big day, and I was so elevated because instantly, the connection and you were the perfect ringmaster. It was awesome. It seems like where most people bail.
We go inward. I find that my world has gotten smaller already because I was out in the world, and it was exciting because it was Hollywood, and I was meeting all these interesting people. If you allow it to, as you get in reduction, there is a new version. I can see how people can get closed down, and that is the worst thing as you get older.
My financial advisor said the number one thing he sees is that people retire. They have all this money, and they are miserable, and they do not always make it very long. You have got to pre-retire, like start building friendships in places you think you want to go. You just pick up and move to France at 60, 70, whatever the age is, 50, retired. You are very lonely and sad. You have to build these connections deeper, not wider. That is what you are doing with these friendships. I have watched you. You are going deeper, which is beautiful, and your family.
By the way, it is definitely a work in progress. There have been a few days where it is like, “What am I doing today? I do not have anything on the calendar, but I am reading.” When you are working, and I did not have time to read books, like when you have the kids and the work. Now I am reading more books and learning. The next chapter is that I am in transition, figuring it out. One thing I know for sure, which is great because I know I will figure it out.
What a great way to wrap it up. There is your manifestation again.
I’m fine with the uncomfortable.
David, my theme for you is that the ends are decided, and I am working backwards. That is just how you roll. Let’s wrap it up with your family. I love Myra. I have not had the pleasure of meeting your daughters yet. One of the things I envy about you is that you are just always in it. I live the same way. If there were such a thing as the Adore Your Wife and Family Club, I would be the founder, and you would be my co-founder because you are of the same mold. It is not like, “How do I get away?” or “How do I deal with it?” It is like, “How do I lean in and love and make it even better?” Talk about that for a minute.
Look, I was very lucky. This is why you are so special. I had a great mentor with my mom and dad. We were their everything. It was like, “That is what I know.” When I had my kids, they were my everything. Myra was my everything. I built my world around them. Even with business, I would tell my assistant, “Soccer game at three today, that was a meeting in my book.” I did not miss. It was great. Family is my everything. It will always be.
By the way, we can all say who we are, and then the world will tell us if we are telling the truth or not. I will never forget one of our first dinners together, and I said to you and Myra, “What is the one thing about your partner that you just adore?” She said, “I knew this guy would always show up, would always be there, would always take care of us.”
That was like, I had a tear in my eye. That is like coming from somebody who, that is her business, I will not share it, but did not have a lot of reasons to believe in that kind of idea. Yet you had her believe that, too. Dave, what a pleasure. We could go for hours, but you are someone who has really nailed it. Family, business, friendships.
Do you know what is so great?
Tell me.
I get to have dinner with you and Nadia.
This will be a twelve-hour podcast. I love you, brother. Thanks.
Thanks for having me. I am honored.