In this very special episode, prepare to uncover valuable wisdom and surprising insights from a generation redefining control and perspective. Join Jeffrey Saad as he sits down with his daughter, Isabella, and her boyfriend, Gabriel—two brilliant minds in their late 20s. They dive deep into the concept of the “Circle of Control”—that crucial boundary between what you can influence and what you can’t—and explore how this philosophy transforms everything from career pivots in New York City to handling social anxieties and even navigating a family business. Hear their honest struggles, their unexpected successes, and the profound lessons they’ve learned about staying sane, fostering great relationships, and finding solace amidst the modern-day “noise.” If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by external pressures, this conversation offers a refreshing, actionable roadmap to expanding your control and shrinking your anxiety.
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Listen to the podcast here
Valuable Nuggets Of Wisdom From My Daughter Isabella And Her Boyfriend Gabriel
This is maybe going to be my favorite episode ever, because I have my daughter here, Isabella Saad, who always makes me look good behind the scenes. She’s helping with social media, guiding me on everything that matters. If you’re looking at my website, don’t blame her because that’s all my fault. We’re working on that. I’ve had the pleasure of getting to know her awesome boyfriend, Gabriel. We’ve been hanging out for the last few weeks over the holidays. I thought to myself, “God, these guys are so smart for their age,” but I know they still have challenges.
How does somebody in their age range, late 20s, how do they view the circle of control? For those of you out there tuning in who are new to this, the circle of control, I’m so passionate about it. It’s about focusing on what you can change and control. That’s your circle. When you do that, it expands. When you spend too much time focusing on all the things you can’t or aren’t willing to fix, it crushes your circle.
Isabella and Gabriel, what does the circle mean? Obviously, you have some inside because Gabriel, as well, is super amazing in branding. His family has a fashion company, and he has a good sense of branding, image, and all these things. You guys are naturally smart. Of course, because we’re together, you’ve heard my stuff. You’re more aware of the circle, maybe, than somebody who hasn’t. Knowing what you know about it, how does it affect your lives? This is about being honest as you’re willing to be because that’s how we’re going to help people. What do you struggle with, and what is easy? Give me your impressions of the circle.
I was going to say that you should maybe start. I learned about the circle from you. I think that your circle of control is a new concept that I’ve learned from listening to your podcast. It’s interesting because I’ve thought about your circle of control in different ways, but I think that thinking about it as a circle is a very concrete and visually pleasing way of viewing it. It becomes very attainable to imagine your life as a circle, and viewing that which is outside of your circle as that which you cannot control. I think that your circle of control is basically representative of anything that you can maybe do as a verb, but whatever happens as an outcome of what your action is, is not in the circle.
Defining The Circle Of Control & The Outcome
Hello, folks. We can wrap it up right now because that’s about as good as it gets. Good for you. I love that you added the result to it. That’s very wise of you because that’s the thing. Most people think that because they didn’t get the result they wanted, something went wrong. No. The universe is going to do what the universe does. The only choice we will ever have in this world is our reaction and how we want to think about something. Be careful what you look for because you will find it. Tell me more then. Give me some specific examples of where you are the master of the circle and where you’ve totally deflated the circle.
It definitely takes form in different ways as you grow and you start doing different things. The first point at which I may have learned about this, and didn’t have enough maturity to act and employ was growing up playing tennis pretty competitively, and having a little bit of a temper on the court, missing a shot, or losing a match, and getting upset. When I learned what was told by the sports psychologist that I was talking to for a little bit, that you can train as hard as you want, and you can work as hard as you can physically and mentally to be as good as you possibly can be, and you can do as much as possible to set yourself up for the opportunity to succeed and to win, but when winning itself is not in your control. You can only do exactly what is necessary to give yourself that opportunity to win.
This could be a sports training model. That’s so beautifully said. In sports, winning is the thing that’s outside the circle.
The greatest of all time lose, and they lose when things happen that are out of their control. Maybe the other guy had a lucky shot or a good balance, and vice versa. Maybe you had a bad one. All of your training can get you to a point where you have the best opportunity to win, but there are all those factors on the outside that are going to be at play in some capacity that might take that away from you.
I’m not a sports guy, but there was one famous coach who said something like, “The only thing you ever need to do is the play we’re doing.” Don’t worry about the scoreboard. To your point, don’t worry about trying to win outside the circle. You can control the player in, and every time you think about the next play or the outcome of the score, he didn’t say it this way, but like, you’re basically outside the circle.
What’s amazing about this to me, and I want to hear the counterpoint to this or your thoughts on this What’s amazing to me is that when you stay in the circle, it makes you more excellent. Your sports analogy is great because the second you start getting frustrated by the opponent or the score, you’re not going to perform as well. As Bruce Lee always said, “Whatever you do, you will do it more poorly if you are not in your best state.” Go out and continue with that. I like that.
Bringing it back to sports, sports are such a good analogy to life. One other aspect of tennis that is interesting is that it’s very easy to think about the points that you lost throughout a match and to harp on those points, but the greatest players ever were able to lose points and start the next one and not think about what happened in the past and focus on the present. When you do that, when you’re able to practice that, it’s crazy what can happen, and then you win a point, and now you’re back in it. One of the beautiful things about tennis, too, is that Roger Federer, the greatest player of all time. I might botch this stat, but I’m pretty sure he won like 51% or 52% of all the points in his career.
One of the famous basketball players, again, I’m a sports idiot, but he has one of the greatest quotes of all time. He starts the quote with, “I’ve missed 10,000 shots. I’ve lost 500 games,” or whatever. It’s like Kobe Bryant or something because you’re going to lose all that stuff. What’s interesting, too, is what you said as well. Presence is the key to being in the circle because if you’re present, you have to be in the circle.
Bella, since you and I are both aligned with not being huge sports fans, give me your thoughts in the circle, maybe in social interactions. What’s something that resonates with you? Because I’m a pain in your butt. Bella calls me with something. Bella has taught me this, by the way. When somebody comes to you, maybe I want to dive into the circle and fix everything, Bella says, “Dad, ask them if they want a hug or listen?” Tell me what that is, which I love.
I think it’s, “Do you want somebody to listen, or do you want somebody to respond, and give you a solution, or do you just need a hug?
You’re naturally wise, but tell me how this circle resonates with you and what environments it hits the most.
I think about the circle a lot in the context of noise. I’m thinking about this specifically with New York in mind. I’ve been there now for seven years, and those are often some of the most transformative years of my life, getting there in my early 20s and now, being almost 30.
I can’t believe it.
Controlling Internal Noise & Reframing External Situations
It’s interesting to think about noise in the context of physical. New York City is one of the most crowded, intense, and overpopulated places ever. You are constantly surrounded by situations and experiences that prompt the circle of control. If I am having a bad morning and I’m at the subway and it’s loud, or some people love to play music or scroll on TikTok without headphones, and I’m irritated, that’s when my mind is like, “What can I do? I can put on my headphones, or I can stay on the side of the subway where there aren’t as many people.” Physically, in that sense, those are the more mundane surface-level ways of thinking about it.
Those are important because what I always loved about you is that you’re constantly getting better, applying things, and making it right. What you make sound very simple can be life-changing for people. Do you actually do that? You’re in the subway, and you say to yourself, “What can I do about this?”
Yeah.
I love that because it’s like, “I’m going to put on my headphones.” Done, you’re happy, and nobody loses. What do most people do? “That freaking idiot. I can’t believe how loud it is.” They go into this storytelling, and guess what? Those people are still watching TikTok, and now you’re in a bad mood. You’re the one who suffered. That’s the irony, too. When you reach out to the circle, usually, you just get punched in the face, and the person on the outside of the circle is still doing what they’re doing.
We’re reframing their situation to make you think about it differently. Does this person out to get you, ruin your day? Maybe their headphones broke, and they need to listen to this song because that makes them happy.
I love that, Bella. That’s like an MBA’s kind of thinking. Not only are you saying, “I’m putting on my headphones,” but you’re actually giving them the benefit of the doubt.
In a more symbolic way of it, or the less tangible and physical way of noise is I think about this big transition I have and my job, being unhappy in my situation. I got to New York, and I was a little bit in that. I was super eager.
Go into some detail on this because there are a lot of people you are going to help that are going through this right now, or they’re about to, and this will help them. I remember that. Be detailed about it. I would love to hear it.
I always knew what my skill sets were. I knew what I was interested in, but I had no idea how to actually leverage that for a job. What does that look like on paper? How do you bring that to an interview, especially with no experience? When I got to New York, I quit my job. I was set up with a great job with a high income, but I wasn’t happy. I wanted to allow myself a fresh canvas, and so I came to New York. I ended up starting with an internship with an amazing designer who has now come full circle to be one of the main reasons why I was able to get my now job that I love.
Hold that thought. I want to inject real quickly, people. What Bella has said is so valuable. Don’t judge the individual things that are happening in your life. Funny enough, as your mom said on the last podcast, she said the same thing. All of a sudden, all those things will make sense. That’s the beauty, so cherish each thing. Think of it as you just added an ingredient to the recipe. Even though it seems bitter, it’s going to offset the sweet perfectly. Keep going. There you are.
It’s funny because there were moments when I was running to get her Chanel shoes soled down the street. I was like, “What am I doing? I wasn’t getting paid. This doesn’t make any sense. “It allowed me the experience, and to get out of the house and get inspired. She’s an incredibly inspirational person. That has served a great purpose.
I then got into the PR world. For me, that was my foot into branding. I wasn’t totally aware of what PR was. I was building the plane as I was flying it, figuring that out, being in it, and then realizing very quickly how much I didn’t enjoy that side of marketing, communications, and branding, but I found myself there and in this cycle of feeling stuck.
Before I even knew the circle, I was like, “What can I do? I can quit, and I can allow myself the time in the hot space to figure out something different, or I can stay and be frustrated that I don’t have enough hours in the day to apply to other jobs or meet new people.” I thought about what things I love, and there were elements of my job at that time that I knew I could take and do in a consulting way. That part was scary. Being self-employed is very scary, so kudos and props to anyone who does that.
Pivoting & Overcoming Fear For The Bigger Picture
You know what you’re making people realize, or me realize, is your ability to overcome fear for the bigger picture. This is what allows you to be in the circle so well. For most people, it’s crazy that the fear or the pain of change will keep people stuck. I’ve always said that nothing great happens in this world until you’re sick to your stomach. You said no. You literally said, “This is more painful than that. I’m going to go for it.”
Something Gabriel and I talk a lot about is this idea of friction. There’s good friction, and there’s bad friction. PR is bad friction because I was not fitting in. It was challenging, but it was also not rewarding.
I love that. Good friction and bad friction.
It’s like coming out and being like, “I need to now figure out how to get clients for consulting,” that was good for friction. It was hard, but it was moving in the right direction, and then I was like, “What else do I love?” I love restaurants, and I thought that at some point in this chapter, I thought maybe I could open a restaurant. I was like, “I need to have experience front of house, and an understanding of every aspect of that.” I got a waitressing job.
I did that for a year, and I allowed myself the time in the space to say, “I don’t want to be consulting. I don’t want to be self-employed. I want to get back into a 9:00 to 5:00, because of more stability. That’s when I found my job now. I think noise in the sense of being in a place where I wasn’t happy. It was loud, and I was I couldn’t see, hear, or think clearly. Stepping back and being like, “What can I actually do, and then doing that.
I love that, and that I’m her dad is not the reason I’m so proud. She’s an amazing human being, but I love that because you’re capturing so many valuable points. What’s amazing about you is that every time you were not in the circle, you took an action. You didn’t tell us right now that you were telling long stories about how you suffered, and it wasn’t fair. I never heard you once say, “I’m educated, and I couldn’t get paid what I wanted to get paid.” You did not once blame anybody. You owned it and said, “What can I do?” I think that’s so valuable.
The other lesson that you gave was that it’s okay to keep pivoting. “Maybe I want to open a restaurant. I’ll start waiting. That doesn’t make me less than. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to get where I’m supposed to go. It means it’s one more avenue that I’m going to take to find that place.” I love the way you’re talking about the circle as noise. I’ve never framed it that way, and I’m going to steal that and give you credit, but when you feel noises in your life, you’re probably outside the circle. The ways can be very direct, like the subway, or they can be in your head, Gabriel. As you said, you could be frustrated with your performances or something, and that becomes the noise of it.
It's okay to keep pivoting. Share on XVisually, the circle is a very calming shape. There’s something about it that feels very cyclical.
I love that you said that, by the way, because I never thought of that either, Gabriel. I just put the tattoo on because it was going to be my reminder. You’re right. I think about it, too. The circle is so symbolic and so many ways because life is all circular. You will spend time going around your circle of control, and the circle can be gray. There will be times you’ll be dipping in and out of it, and all that is part of it. Can you think of a story when both of you couldn’t get back in the circle, where you realize that you were spinning out or or it affected you. Maybe you didn’t know then. As you said, Gabriel, it was a circle, but now that you look back, “Wow, that’s what I was doing.” The tennis, you said, was one.
Let me challenge you with this, or continue with what you had in your mind if you had something. I think you’re in a very unique situation because I see a guy who is super smart and adding a ton of value to his company, but it is your family’s company. How does the circle control come into play when you have all these great ideas potentially, or you’re part of this, but yet you still have to interact, and it’s a family situation? Is that a place, or do you have something else in mind? I’m going to hear whatever resonates with you.
The family dynamic is a special one that we have. Where my mom and I are very able to work together and communicate. Communication is probably the most important thing that we have, which is that I don’t take what she says to me in a work setting as a personal jab at me or who I am. Some of it is my work mentally on myself, then a lot of it is her ability and framing in the way that she phrases things as well.
The family dynamic that we have is special and probably unique. The reason why it works is communication. There are a lot of times when I have ideas that I bring to the table, and they need to be put on pause or put on the back burner for a second. My direct boss, being my mother, it’s an open situation for me to rebut in a way that one would not rebut.
I’ve learned over the last few years that when things get put on the back burner, press pause, that’s for a reason. It’s because the time wasn’t right for it. Every now and then, and this happened recently. I was driving our car from a podcast that we shot in Venice.
When things get put on the back burner, press pause—that’s for a reason, and it’s because the timing wasn’t right. Share on XPlug your mom’s awesome podcast because it is amazing.
The (Almost) Reckless podcast is available on all streaming platforms. We shot a couple of podcasts in Los Angeles while we were here. We were driving home from one of them, and I was going probably 45 or 35. She told me that I was speeding and that I needed to slow down. I was like, “I’m not. It’s fine.” She was like, “Really, my son. When you’re on the clock, you need to listen to me.” I don’t know how that necessarily relates to the circle, per se.
What I could say is, “Mom, this is your opportunity for circle of control because you don’t get to control how other people drive in these things.” There’s gas for all of us.
Unless she is the boss in the car situation. Recently, and in recent times, I had periods when I’ve struggled to stay in the circle of control, having necessarily had to do with work, but they may have had more to do with myself personally. One scenario that maybe a lot of people nowadays, from younger generations, can relate to, and even more, the kids that are in high school right now and going to college, and parents probably see this in their kids a lot.
I remember when I was applying to schools, the application process was pretty grueling. There’s a lot of stress about whether or not you’re going to be able to get into the schools you want to get into. You’re competing with your best friends as to where you want to go. None of that, ultimately, is in your control. As a kid or a teen faced with that, I didn’t know how to understand that.
You think that when you do well on your ACT and SAT, you wrote a good essay, you have a good application and a resume, you should be able to control, and you can get in. Ultimately, you probably won’t get in. The odds are completely against you, no matter who you are now, and it has only gotten harder.
If you’re in the process of putting in an application, just stop now and get a restaurant job. No, but that’s good advice. What you said more than once that I love, which I’m such a believer in, is that the way to stay in the circle is not to take it personally. Whether you get in or not is not your decision. You don’t have control over it. Your control was to study hard, which you did, and to do the applications. I like that you keep coming back to that.
One of the best ways people can stay in the circle is to not take anything personally and to know that the universe, God, or whatever you believe in, there’s some energy or plan that this is all part of, and to let it play out and to keep moving forward. The second you take it personally, not only are you outside the circle, but you probably will not do better.
Not Taking Things Personally
There is a very specific key to not taking things personally, which may be different people have different concepts that they think work. Something about that is what I talked about today, which was that you are not responsible for someone else’s feelings. You’re responsible for giving someone the opportunity to someone to feel a certain type of way. Ultimately, you’re not responsible for the way that someone perceives something that you’ve done. That works in that direction, as well as the other direction, which is that you are completely responsible for your own feelings.
Say that again. That’s huge. If everyone could just stop that, think about it. We are all living in this world of judgment. I always say that. Who would you be if you wanted to be who you thought you were? I think Anthony Hopkins said it. He was quoting Shakespeare, or something, “What other people think of me is none of my business. I love that. Keep going. That’s beautiful.
I’ve been trying to practice this for fifteen years now, and we’re ten years now. I’m still not a master or even close to a master at it. Trying to understand that the way you feel about things is completely your choice, no matter what it is, no matter what someone says, no matter what someone does, they might be a shitty person, or they might have acted shitty. The way that you take what was done to you is completely up to you. Ultimately, the only thing that you can control is the way you feel about something. It’s as simple as switching your brain a little bit and switching the way that you see things.
You’re not responsible for how someone perceives something you’ve done, and that goes both ways—you are completely responsible for your own feelings. Share on XGive me an example that switch. What is something you can think of?
The best way to help that switch progress forward is understanding that most people’s actions, if not all people’s actions, are derived from the way that they view themselves and the worth that they believe in themselves, and the value that they think they have as a person.
I wish we were on video. You think that you would be seeing this 50 or 60-year-old wise man. Gabriel is not even 30, and he’s saying all this stuff. It’s beautiful. This is the stuff that should be taught in school. You understand these things, and you are already applying them, both of you. This is the life-changing stuff. Anybody can learn a job. This stuff affects your whole life. Keep going.
Reframing Criticism & Self-Perception
Reframing that and understanding that people’s actions are basically a response to the way that they view themselves as a person. It can help you to make that switch in your mind of the way that you perceive what people do. Someone is telling you that you’re ugly or that dress doesn’t look good. Someone saying something like that to you is a reflection of the way they view themselves. Yes, they’ve given you an opportunity to feel bad about yourself, but the best mode of action would be to consider the way that they feel about themselves, which would bring them to a point where they would feel the need to bring you down. You can then actually have some empathy and turn the situation around in your mind. You probably won’t feel so bad about yourself. You might feel bad for that person.
Can you think of an example recently that happened to you, that you had to shift? I put myself in the spot, probably many of them. While you’re thinking, I want to reiterate. What you said, Bella, oftentimes, it’s a reflection of what they feel about themselves. As Bella said, it could also have nothing to do with you or anything.
I’ve dealt with that as a realtor. I’ve learned I haven’t gotten better at real estate by being a better salesman. I’ve gotten better at real estate by being more empathetic. A client’s home is the core of your life. When your home is disrupted, you get crazy. This isn’t about me. It’s not about how they feel about you. It’s just that they’re off-center. I’ve knocked on doors before, and the person is like, “Don’t you ever come back to my door,” and they slam the door. I would go back in three months. They’re like, “Do you want coffee?” They were just going through something. Sometimes it’s not even about them, specifically, and what they’re saying about you. You just get to be the lucky recipient of their bad day.
I’ve tried hard in the last few years to make sure that I’m surrounding myself with a smaller group of people that I think are very close to me, and that I trust and respect, and learn from. I can’t say that I have necessarily found myself in situations too frequently recently, where I’ve been on the other end of that.
You can say that everyone loves you and gives you compliments. It’s awesome.
That’s not always the case. Things burn, and they stick with you forever. A kid calling me fat in fifth grade is a core memory. I remember exactly where I was when that happened.
Isn’t that crazy? I appreciate that transparency because that’s real.
A coach was telling you that you would never be able to play at a certain school. I remember exactly where I was when they said that. The negative stuff sticks with you, and that is what stays with you forever and making it almost impossible.
Talking about circle scars now.
It makes it almost impossible to become a master at this idea of having positive self-perception all the time. In some deeply rooted place, those experiences still exist. Whether it’s a parent, a friend, a coach, or a teacher.
You may have just saved anybody who’s listening. You may have just saved them. Whether they’re 13 or 60, starting today that they will take your advice. They won’t have those things in the future to look back on. That’s the thing. The only reason you have that is that nobody told you back then, or you didn’t hear it the same way.
If they had told you back then, “That’s not a reflection of you, that’s them,” you wouldn’t maybe have that scar today. That’s what I love about what we’re doing with this. I want to make people’s lives better because it is about these shifts. How about you, Bella? What’s an example you can think of? The subway one was great. The one about work was great, but also, Gabriel, real quick. You may realize something else, talk about this Bella for you.
The circle is a circle of people. If you choose to have this small group of people, which is what happened to us during COVID, you’re also going to have automatically a better life and a better way to stay in the circle because you’re not dealing with all these challenges. You’ve surrounded yourself. A lot of times, we feel guilty, “I can’t keep that person outside my circle because I owe them, or I feel bad for them.” If it’s ruining you, then you’re not helping them either.
Something that makes my circle feel small, meaning there’s not much I can do, and then everything else outside feels so much bigger and louder, is this fixation on the way people perceive me. Piggybacking onto what Gabriel said, this is in the less direct ways, which make it even harder. No one is telling me anything. It’s these completely intangible and made-up stories.
Most—if not all—of people’s actions are derived from the way they view themselves. Share on XSelf-creating noise.
Totally, and things that I’ll probably never know. I don’t know what that person thought of my outfit. I don’t know if this person thought about me like it was good, and I don’t need to know. I struggle a lot in many aspects of my life, like work, personally, socially, and even with a small circle. I don’t challenge, but I think those things can happen even if you have a very small circle of people.
Again, it has to do with the work you need to do. If you foster that group of people who care about it, there’s a reason that they’re in your circle. They should be aiding you and your journey of being in that place, versus being outside of it. You asked a place where I feel like I sort of spin out, and I don’t know how to get back in. I think that’s a big one. Probably, I need to work on being confident about my own self-perception, which is inside my circle.
You just helped a ton of people. I hope they’ve heard this, and I’m so grateful for your honesty. Anybody looking at you, if we’re on video right now, you can see this beautiful woman, confident, and gorgeous. She’s super successful. Many people look to her, including myself, for help and advice, and yet you can still have that feeling. That’s what’s wild. We are human beings, and this challenge is not what you’re supposed to look like or what you think people are thinking, but what is going on in your head?
The head is a circle. There it is again. You guys have brought up some valuable points. Not taking things personally, not telling stories, which is a big one. I’m always about storytelling. It is the most fascinating thing ever. I swear to God, if people stop doing storytelling to themselves, they would save some of their time. Half the time, it has nothing to do with you. I had one person who said to me, “She didn’t call me back.” She was spinning into this whole thing. It turned out that her phone broke, and she was at the Apple Store getting a new phone.
People are willing to go down this crazy rabbit hole of stories. I always say that if you’re going to tell a story, I’m going to say they can’t figure out how many ways to tell me that they love me, so they’re trying to figure it out before they call back. Why not? They’re both made up, so let’s pick the good one. Can you give an example, Bella, of how you had moments of breaking out of that, or what you did to solve that? Is it something that’s still too deep to go there yet? How would you like to solve it moving forward? Do you think it’s doable?
It’s harder. I’m still figuring that out. It’s about asking yourself what you can do to not need validation or the assurance of everyone who sits outside of the circle. If I am insecure about a meal I cooked, it’s more about being like, “I’m going to figure out how I can make the meat better next time,” so that I know that when I have it, I’m proud of it and it’s good. That’s what matters. A lot of the obsession about perception does come from a place of I don’t feel like I’m fully at my best potential. It’s like focusing on the areas in your life and what you can do to get there. Once you’re there and you’re fully proud of who you are and what you’re bringing to the table, you hope people will come to the table where you’re all so happy to sit there on your own and enjoy what you’ve created.
What you’re making me think is that we all have to learn that our own applause is the only applause we need. That’s enough. If I know that I have done my best, and I have done it from a place of what my values and principles are, then it’s a check mark. One set of applause, my own is enough. I’ve always said I would rather be disliked for who I am than liked for somebody I’m not. That is the thing. I always say I can put my head down at night and sleep well because I truly believe, as Gabriel and I were talking about earlier, I’m not trying in life. I’m doing. I am doing my best.
It doesn’t mean it’s right or that it is the best, but it’s my best at least at that time. That’s well said, Bella. The irony is that, for anybody listening, you’re probably giving them a big sigh of relief because you’re an excellent cook, for example. Everything you do, and Gabriel could speak to it, you do it at a high level. That shows you, too. The real challenge is how you see yourself clearly. Your feelings are real. The experience is real, but the actuality of what you’re doing is excellent. It goes to show you how powerful that circle can be. I could tell you got something right there.
You actually touched on what I was going to add. It is that a lot of this is about asking the question, what’s the motivation behind what you’re doing? If you know that you are good because every person is good, and you know that you’re worthy and valuable because you’re a human being, then your motivation for doing things like cooking for your friends or whatnot should theoretically make you happy. Whether or not someone else thinks that a stake is undercooked or overcooked isn’t really the question. It’s more of, was the process of doing this worthwhile, and didn’t make me happy?
If your friends are true friends, they’ll appreciate what you did, no matter what the outcome is. They’ll feel the love and the affection that you wanted to give off. Being motivated not by what others take away from a situation but by whether this is what makes you happy, and the reason behind why you’re doing it is because you love it. I’ve learned this from you, which is that you should do things because you love them and they make you happy. If that’s your motivation, then you’ll probably never fail because you wouldn’t be doing things that are not going to make you happy.
As I say this, I’m very aware that there are a lot of people out there who have to do things that are not the most fun and that maybe don’t make them very happy, but are essential for them to be able to live. There is a caveat there where there are situations where you do have to do things to survive. That may not make you the happiest person in the world.
To your point earlier, which was very brilliant, whether you realize it or not. Again, it’s all about reframing. If you’re doing something you’ll want to be doing again. It’s the old bricklayer’s story. You can say, “I’m just a bricklayer because right now I have to do this to be my family,” or you can say what this bricklayer said, which I don’t remember exactly. Basically, “I’m not a bricklayer. I’m the builder of castles, where people have great lives. I provide shelter.”
Somebody listening might go, “That’s silly positive self-talk,” but it matters. You and I were talking about earlier, Gabriel, what you say, you’ll hear it, and it matters. It’s framing matters. Sometimes you really want the applause. You work hard, and you want to know people appreciate it. That’s okay, too. It’s okay to let yourself off the hook sometimes and say, “Yes, I’m doing it for myself. I hope people enjoy it.” You and I felt the same about that. I really care that when I put myself on a plate that you enjoyed it. I won’t take it personally if you don’t, but it definitely gives me extra joy to know that you did, on top of the fact that I had joy doing it.
Nadia used to give me a hard time. My amazing wife is the perfect balance for me, but I used to cook all these taco bars for Compass when we first opened in Beverly Hills. She said, “Why are you doing all this stuff? You’re bringing this food, and you’re taking all your time. I go, “I never even thought about it. I just enjoy it. Look at how much they like the tacos.” Coincidentally, referrals came from other things, but as you said, Gabriel, if you do it from a place of passion and sincerity, then you don’t care about the outcome because that’s why you’re doing it. Go ahead, Bella.
That should be the easiest and simplest way to think about it, which is like, “Does this make me happy?” If it does, to Gabriel’s point, the result doesn’t matter because it was the process of it. I’m spending my time and energy and whatnot doing things that make me happy. What’s hard sometimes is when that correlation isn’t so direct. Sometimes you have to do things. Not even out of necessity.
The simplest way to think about it is: does this make me happy? And if it does, then the result doesn’t matter, because it’s the process that counts. Share on XWe’re talking about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It’s not like food and shelter, but social connection, your friends. This is something that I have struggled with a little bit. As my circle has grown smaller, that means that the people in that circle or deeply important to me. Showing up for them is like breathing, and it’s like food, and it’s important. Sometimes in those situations, you don’t have to, but you choose to do something that doesn’t obviously make you happy. Choosing that isn’t necessarily like, but it’s that indirect thing of you know that it makes the person happy.
It is very selfless.
That’s a place, though, where you can fall out of the circle very easily. It’s not obvious that it’s something that should be making you happy because it makes someone you love happy. Those are the times when it’s easy to be like, “I’m doing this, and I don’t want to be doing this. I could not be doing it, but I should be doing it.”
I love it, Bella, but you’re so right. What’s interesting is human nature. When you do it because you’re trying to be kind, you’re going to want more reason. Negative or lack of acknowledgment is more painful because it’s like, “At least, you could have said thank you.” Again, it’s back to the storytelling. Have you ever had anybody say or do something that truly justified how you feel that way? What percentage of it truly is in your head versus “Oh my God. I can’t believe three of the five people said this sucked, that I’m not looking good tonight, or that I’m not that interesting.”
We could go down a therapy rabbit hole. There were definitely traumatic social dynamics from being in high school. That did have an effect on my self-perception. Moving a lot from high school to high school, rebuilding social circles, and finding your safe haven was hard. At a young age, when you are changing, and then that’s happening too, when you are changing, it’s easy to be so malleable to people’s opinions of you.
That’s a great point because it’s like receptance again.
You don’t know what you want yet. You’re still figuring that out. As that’s happening, people have opinions, but they don’t know you. It gets very convoluted. That’s where a lot of that comes from. The truth of it is that it is self-perception. That’s what I think is at the root of it.
People have opinions, but they don’t really know you. Share on XThat doesn’t change its ability. It’s just an interesting thing to learn from.
It’s figuring out self-perception clearly at the very center of the circle, or close to the center. It’s figuring out what’s in there to get there.
I don’t want to get political, definitely. At your age, how does the circle control feel when you guys are smart young adults doing good things? Is there a sense of like, “All this stuff I see happening in the world, I can’t affect it, but I see what’s wrong.” The older we get, hopefully, we have less of that to look at because we’re further along or whatever, but you’ve got your whole life ahead of you. How does that feel, or am I off base with that?
Finding Solace In Human Connection Amidst World Problems
It’s easy to look at the world and think that the world is pretty messed up in a lot of different places, and it is. It’s also true that, unfortunately, the way that power dynamics are aligned in the world, it’s very hard, if not impossible, for the average person to be able to make a difference, or for it to seem as though you can make a difference. It’s a risky rabbit hole to think about this because you can fall pretty deep into a dark place where you begin to wonder if anything is possible to change and to be good.
Where I find solace is in talking to my friends, talking to people on the street, talking to the guy who sold me my lunch, or talking to the person at the farmer’s market, or talking to Isabella. We’re talking to you. Talking to people makes you realize that the world is going to be okay. Those people, if not all people that you get a chance to talk to, everyone pretty much believes in the same thing.
I love that. My translation of that is, why are we focusing on all the people we don’t know, the theoretical, the billionaires, whatever you want to call them, the evil people, the bad dictators? You can go talk to the guy in front of you, as you said. If you talk to 50 people today, I bet you 49 of them will resonate, and you realize we’re all the same. They’re actually pretty good. Most people are pretty good. That’s a great point.
We talked about this first second in the car today. Where the focus goes for what legacy media talks about is toward things that are very divisive. As more divisiveness happens and people become further and further apart, people are less likely to talk to each other. When people are less likely to talk to each other, people are less likely to acknowledge that we all see the same bad and the same good going on. It becomes a lot easier to control people.
It’s in the bad actors’ best interest for people to be separated and for people to be divided. Ultimately, having a positive perspective and outlook on the world is the only thing you can do to stay sane. Talking to people and finding some mode of connection, even if it’s over the fact that you like the same vegetable, that’s all it is.
“Those are all my favorite things, too.” That’s optimism. As you guys know, I’m the biggest fan of that. Nothing in this world can get done if it doesn’t start with the belief that it can. We have to start with the belief that it will be good, that everything will be okay, that we’ll all find our place. If you don’t start with even the belief, how do you have a chance?
We can go on forever, but we have a holiday drink to get to. I would like to close the circle. Obviously, Bella, if you have anything additional you want, but this is what I would love to hear from each of you, because I see such a beautiful relationship, and two awesome people. I always say that if I did nothing else in this world, having Bella would be enough accomplishment for me. Because I see that beautiful relationship in you two, if you can think of it and want to share it, each of you, what’s one way that your relationship is or continues to get better because of something you do in the circle?
Communication.
What’s the example, like in reference to the circle of control?
Communication As A Foundational Element In Relationships
There’s a bunch of examples here, but something that Isabella and I have done from the get-go was communicate with each other, no matter how hard or how great the moment was, and how much you wanted to be communicating, or how little you want to be communicating, whether I was pulling it out of Bella or she was pulling it out of me. Communicating is completely in your circle of control. You can do it if you want to. It is one of the most important things in our relationship and in most people’s relationships.
Things that Isabella communicated to me on the first few times that we saw each other are still things that I think about every day. If she hadn’t communicated those things to me, then I don’t know, I’m sure that we would still be somewhere, but I don’t think that we would be where we are. Our communication continues to get better.
What I love about that, Gabriel, is that you literally close the circle. Bella started with noise. What I’m here and you say is the only thing worse than noise to be outside the circle is silence.
Every time we go through one of the hard communication periods, the only thing that happens is that you come out on the other end stronger.
When you’re considering someone as a potential partner—when you’re starting to date, for example—ask questions that help you understand whether your values, morals, and worldview align. Share on XI’ve seen it. You’ve shown that. For all you guys out there, you’re going to want to kill Gabriel, but you should start doing this. He keeps a log of things that he thinks are amazing that Bella said. I love that because that’s how you stay close. I always say, make a list of things you love, not the things that bother you. Bella, your turn. What’s something in the circle that’s for your relationship? He took the good, obvious one.
That’s very foundational. We did a good job early on, which you should always do as a person, considering somebody is your partner, like you’re starting to date or whatnot, asking them questions to make sure that you are aligned about your values and your morals, and the way you see the world at large, like the important things that make you who you are.
We did a good job of asking questions that maybe we were asked very early on. We felt very open and comfortable doing that. That allowed us then to color our circle with all the ways that were different and then all the ways that were so similar. With that, we do a good job of celebrating the ways that were different, too, and constantly feeding each other with newness and unfamiliarity in a great way. That’s what makes us both feel whole in our own little selves together.
I love that another new idea, overlapping circles. You’ve done it well. They aren’t bouncing off each other. They’re overlapping until they’re one. You guys are awesome. Thank you for doing this. You have definitely filled my circle. I’m so impressed, and I love you both.